In Episode One of The Job Lab Podcast I spoke with Chris Dorris, a mental toughness coach that has truly impacted my life. I first met Chris when I was just out of college and found myself a fledging punter trying to stick in the NFL. As an NFL Combine invitee, I knew I had the ability to play at the next level, but I didn’t have ay proof that a team wanted me. I had been passed over in the draft, despite a call on Saturday, day one of the draft, (which selected rounds 1-3 at that time) telling me that if I were available when their 6th round pick came up Sunday, that I’d be a Steeler. The 6th Round of the 2002 NFL Draft came and went, as did the 7th. That left me as a free agent with Minnesota my first year, competing with a Super Bowl Champion (Kyle Richardson) for the one roster spot given to a punter. No backups. No points for second place – just a trip home.
Chris helped me figure it out, and while I never had the NFL career I dreamed of, I was an All-NFL Europe selection both seasons I played abroad and did eventually make three seperate regular season NFL rosters, and even tie a franchise record with the Ravens. Albeit, for the undistinguished achievement of most punts in a game.
It is because of what his mentorship and perspective meant to my life that I wanted to bring him on as the first ever guest on The Job Lab Podcast. Our conversation is transcribed below.
Chris: Nick, I totally appreciate the invite, it’s an honor to be on your podcast first of all, and a bigger honor to be your first guest. And thank you man because you’re giving me another opportunity to serve and to fill my life’s purpose which is to help people close the gap between how there life is and how they’d prefer it to be. So thank you man.
Nick: You are crystal clear on what you want, you’re crystal clear on what you do with your life, what your intentions are, who you want to serve, how you want to be, but it hasn’t always been that way. I want you to share a little bit with the audience about your story how you came to be Chris Dorris, mental toughness coach, and not just Chris Dorris from Philly.
Chris: What do you mean? Remove the word just, just Chris Dorris from Philly? come on now. You played for the birds, you can’t put just in front of just from Philly.
Nick: Congratulations on the Eagles’ Super Bowl win by the way. Let’s just get that out of the way, congrats to the Eagles.
Chris: Right on, roger that, I appreciate that, I’m still celebrating. I gotta tell you if you ask me the question what are you most proud in life. One of my very top answers would be that for whatever combination of reasons, I had the courage to decide after college, to not just go take a job for money and to not just take a job because it was available. I had some good mentoring and I read a really good book right out of college which is entitled, “Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow” by Marsha Sinetar and I thank God for that. Because I made the decision to do what, to take the advice of one of my favorite teachers in history, his name is Joseph Campbell, and his advice is so powerfully summarized in three words and they are follow your bliss.
So I didn’t know what my bliss was, coming out of college, I just knew what I wanted my vocation and my career to be about, but I sure as hell didn’t know what specifically it would be. And I sure as hell could never have predicted it would be what it looks like today. All I knew is that I wanted to help people, I wanted to help people upgrade the way they’re using their lives. For whatever reasons, and I know what the number one reason is, and I’ll tell you what it is. I wanted to help people not settle. I wanted my career to be about helping people be in love with their lives and career is such an enormous part of our lives, we spend so much time in our jobs, right. That my mission, in large part became about helping people choose vocations.
I love the word vocation more than job. I don’t have a job. I haven’t had a job for, I’ll never have another job. I just have created a vocation and I want everyone to feel the beauty of that too. And I’ll tell you so where I came from was my neighbors. My dad died when I was really young, when I was nine, and after that we struggled hard. And my house was full of suffering and pain and a lot of scarcity thinking, a lot of fear and struggle. And it was in stark contrast to my neighbors, who were this remarkably joyous older retired couple, who you know had created abundance for themselves and were celebratory and were happy and were always having people, having guests stay for a week and they’re entertaining and they were just, the vibe of their lives and their home was so appealing and attractive, that was a huge influence. Maybe the primary influence for me to choose the path that I chose, and it was simply because I was like, there’s is better, like the way they’re going through life is better than the way I feel we’re going through ours. And if anybody could do it, we could all do it, so that was the impetus.
So I come out of college and I didn’t know, I just like wanted to help people have their lives be on their terms, that’s it, I didn’t know what else that would look like. So I took a job, that was available, but it was in social work so it was helping people right, so I knew it was on the path it was in the direction of. But I knew social work was not gonna be my, it wasn’t the long term solution for me, it wasn’t my sweet spot, but it was a great start. This is cool, this is pretty cool Nick, because this is all unpredictable stuff right, and I’ll interrupt this story just to say, that like all these amazing unpredictable things happen that are really beautiful that change your trajectories, when you follow your bliss, when you have the courage to trust the organizing intelligence, I say, inherent within your passions, these remarkably unpredictable things occur for you. For example, I shattered my leg playing basketball during the four years I was doing social work, it didn’t sound like a blessing at the time, but in retrospect it was the best damn thing that coulda happened, because it had me get into golf. Got into golf discovered how mental the game was. And then I discovered, oh my god, maybe this is my calling, maybe this is the thing, like I could marry my passion for psychology and the human spirit and human potential with my passion for sports, ’cause I was an athlete all my life. And I thought, there it is, there’s the ticket.
I wouldn’t have predicted that it would have come from breaking my leg and then taking up golf instead of hoops, but okay I’ll take it. So that’s when I moved out here to Arizona, got my graduate degree, then started my practice, as I was gradually starting my sports psych practice, I had to do stuff for money, so I was a licensed therapist. And at one point as my practice was growing I decided, I’m just tired of working with people and their problems, and I want to do what I decided to do when I moved out to Arizona, which is work on people and their dreams, specifically athletes. So then I did it and I started a practice, then the next unpredictable thing, some guy comes to one of these seminars that I’m doing for golfers on the mental game, and he approaches me afterwards and he says, I am the director of sales at a company called Insight, and I need you to come train my sales team. And I said, I’ve never really done any work with corporations. And he goes, I don’t care, just do what you just did with these golfers ’cause my sales team needs it. That opened up the door man, that’s why I’m working now with companies like Apple, Salesforce, and all these sales teams around the world and doing keynotes and blogging and writing books and all this stuff that, Nick I gotta tell ya, could never have possibly predicted. When I was 22 and said after I broke my leg, let’s go see if I can work with some athletes and help them do better by training their brain.
Nick: One of the things that I know from having worked with you and having known you for 15 years or whatever it’s been now, is that a lot of what you talk about and a lot of things that stuck and resonated with me were around educating me and opening my eyes to the amount of negative conditioning that we’re all taught. And it’s not like you have to have bad parents to be taught negative conditioning or, I mean I remember riding around in the car, in our Astro minivan when I was a kid and talking, well what do you want to do when you grow up? My brother wanted to be a fighter pilot (he’s now terrified of flying at all) and I wanted to play pro baseball. And my mom said, “well that’s sweet, but what are you really gonna do?” She didn’t mean anything by it right, but like, I’m cognizant of that when my kids say something that I want to use negative conditioning, not to be negative but just, well “let’s be realistic.” Talk about what “realistic” means and in your work, that question that you ask people, that kind of shatters that conditioning mindset.
Chris: You know, we can’t blame parents because the hard wiring there is to protect, right, is to protect the offspring. And part of their conditioning is that they want to make sure that they’re happy and part of their conditioning about what that involves is making sure that they can make a living. And we haven’t all been trained to trust the organizing intelligence or the power, we’ll just say the power that is inherent within our passions. You know it’s like look at guidance counselors historically in high schools, they never ask you the question “what would you love?” Like, “what would be amazing?” “Hey teenager if you could create like wealth doing absolutely anything imaginable, what would that be?” These aren’t questions that get asked, it’s like “hey, take a look at these books called the Dictionary of Occupational Titles or the Occupational Outlook Handbook and then we’re gonna take this interest inventory on the computer, you’re gonna get a printout and it’s gonna tell you what careers could be good for you.”
That’s pathetic, man, the big question that I love to ask people in my coaching, in my life, is this, and I’m telling you man I can’t think of too many bigger questions than this one. I can’t think of too many more important questions to pause and take the time to reflect and to answer. And the question is this– How do you most profoundly want to use the rest of your life? And then you combine that question with this belief, which is and you can make money doing anything. Then you start to get an answer to that, you create a response to that and then you move towards that, right. To me that’s the ingredients, that’s the protocol, that’s the step-by-step process, and it’s only two, to creating your life and your dreams. Is one answer, what does perfect look like and then move towards, just move towards. I know this sounds so ethereal, and so theoretical and it might sound to people listening, that’s bullshit, that’s totally impractical. Really, I get that, of course it does sound like that, because that’s in contrast to the conditioning that would have your mom say, “oh that’s really sweet, but really what are you gonna do to survive?”
The conditioning, which is survival, so it sounds impractical. But I gotta tell you this, I also studied in graduate school, the attitudes of centenarians, people who are on death’s doorstep, people who are 100 years old or older. And their answers to the question, what would you do different, changed my life. And three of the most popular responses, were A I would take more risks, B I would slow down, appreciate how magical life is without me having to mess with it our do anything just appreciate the beauty of life, and C is I would be way less concerned about my own success and way more interested and committed to making a difference, right, making a difference, they all say that. And take more risks, so it’s like, I don’t want to go to the end of my life, I don’t want to arrive at the end of my life and go, I wonder what, I wonder if, what if I had tried. So really the message is, to summarize all that long winded response, is get an answer to the question. Think about what would, how would you really love to spend, if you could make money doing anything, ’cause you can, you really can, what would you love that to be? And because when you’re passionate about what you’re doing, motivation is never a concern. Motivation and perseverance are not issues, they’re spontaneous, they’re automatic, and you’re gonna be great at it, so you can make money at it.
Nick: There’s a Gallup poll that they’ve been doing for about 30 years, that measures employee engagement, or really employee disengagement, and it’s hovered, it ebbs and flows a little bit, but its hovered around 80, I’ve seen it as high as 87% of people are disengaged at work. So, to play devil’s advocate and ask questions that I’m sure some of these listeners are thinking is, I have to pay my bills, I can’t, sure I would love to be a professional bowler, I would love to practice yoga all day, or I would love to just hit the golf course and I’m good, maybe I could make money at that, but I just, that’s not realistic. How do I jump from what I’m doing to what I really love doing? For those people, what’s your advice, how do you begin that process because it’s super overwhelming when you think about it. Particularly if you’re in a situation where you have never been conditioned or never been surrounded by people that tell you and prove to you through the way that they live their life, that man this is what they were doing and now they’re doing this and it is possible. So where do you start, how do you break down that first wall of holy crap this is nuts, I don’t even know where to start?
Chris: Okay the whole thing starts in your head. Before you take any action, you gotta get your head right. And so you gotta replace the thought, I don’t think this is possible with at minimum, let’s just explore this as a possibility, I’m not gonna make any rash moves, I’m not going to make any hasty changes here. I’m not gonna do anything stupid, I’m simply going to open up to the possibility that maybe I could have my life as I want it to be. Right let’s just open up to that possibility. That’s question number one, or step number one.
Then the next step is do [something], you know when I started my practice here, right before I met you, I was working three jobs. One was I was trying to start my practice which was a job and I spent a lot of time at time, but I was struggling because I didn’t know where to get clients and I was spending enormous amounts of time, sitting at my desk, writing things and brainstorming and calling people and going to networking meetings, but then I had to pay the bills, I get that, I had to pay the bills. And what I did to pay the bills, I had two other jobs, and neither of them were rewarding, they were just what I needed to do to survive while I was exploring the possibility of creating what I really loved. And I would be bold faced liar if I didn’t acknowledge that during that time, I had incredible fear, incredible doubt, it didn’t unfold with effortless ease. But it wouldn’t have unfolded period, if I hadn’t at least opened up to the possibility that I could really live my dream.
And Nick, I’m doing that, you know what, I don’t think I ever told you this, but when I was just entertaining moving out here to pursue the career in sport’s psychology, I contacted a bunch of experts in the field, like people who had written popular books on mental training and people who I would even see on TV, like working with professional golfers and professional tennis players and like the big names in the world of sports psychology. I actually reached out to them and was able to connect with them and I asked them questions like, hey look I want to do what you’re doing, what do you got for me? Can you give me any guidance and advice? And I’m telling ya, I’m not stretching this even a tiniest bit, this is part of what they told me, they said man you are, you’re choosing an uphill battle brother, because there are a ton of people right now entering this field for an extremely limited number of opportunities. You’re going to need to get your PhD, fact, and you’re going to need to either be a professor at a university and start your practice on the side gradually, or you’re gonna need to be clinical psychologist and start your practice on the side gradually.
Nick: Man that’s encouraging.
Chris: Exactly, right, so I hung up, and I’m like “Damn!” This doesn’t sound like it’s gonna be easy, but I still wasn’t discouraged because again, I was trusting that my passion would get me there. And I’m telling you that’s the most, there’s nothing in my life I’m more proud of than that, having demonstrated the courage to trust that my passion would get me there. And I did what Joseph Campbell said was follow my bliss. So you know in retrospect, guess what, do I have a PhD? Nope, no, did I start a practice and gradually, am I a professor at a university, gradually start my practice? Nope, did I become a, well actually I did become a licensed, I became a licensed therapist but I wasn’t a psychotherapist and start my practice gradually. I started my practice primarily, I started my practice immediately. In fact I started my practice in graduate school, I was telling people, as I was a waiter, I was a waiter, during graduate school and people are asking me, what are you up to? And I stopped saying, I’m studying to become a sports psychologist, I started telling people, who I’m putting a stake down in front of them, and I’m saying I’m a sports psychologist. And they would go, wow, that’s interesting, do you work with kids, ’cause our kid’s just starting to play? Yes I do, and that’s where my first clients came from.
Nick: That’s great.
Chris: So the point of all of it, is that don’t wait, trust that magic happens when you follow your bliss. Magic happens, there is unbelievably beautiful intelligence inherent within your passion. When you are in alignment with your passion, you are spirited, you’re inspired. You create outcomes that you could never have imagined. So throughout the entire course of the trajectory of my career, the one thing that’s remained consistent, is my commitment to trust, to trust that what I love, can be monetizable. Not only monetizable but way beyond that, is that I can have my life on my terms.
Nick: It’s difficult right, I think most people would agree that it’s a long road and I think this society in particular with where we are, we want things now, we don’t want to wait for things. That’s why we’re crushed with credit card and student loan debt, we’re conditioned to believe that all these things are required to just punch our ticket to the game, I guess. And what it reminded me of when you were telling your story, was you have an audio program that I want you to talk about called, All In, but you’ve got a line in there and I’ve listened to it on repeat for years, and I could probably recite it to you if I wanted to. But it’s, every step you take is a step forward even when it doesn’t feel like it, and you use this really great analogy about a windy road. So for people that are committed to going and following their passion and building that, how can they separate themselves from the societal pressure from their inherent conditioning that says, A that’s not possible, B you need to take care of something and you can’t be irresponsible and just the human innate, god that’s a lot of work, that’s gonna take me a really long time, sure if I do it it’s gonna be amazing, I think, but there’s no proof of that, and I don’t know that I want to live in misery for five years just to be blissfully happy. Maybe I’ll just stay in a job I’m okay with, what do you say to that person?
Chris: I say that’s your call, I say you get to do that right, that’s your call, that’s part of the beauty of life, you get to make that decision. But before you do, think about this, what are you gonna want to say at the end of your life? If you have the opportunity, to look back, at the end of your life, what are you going to want to say about how you used it? What are you gonna want to say about how you chose in this very moment of your life, like fast forward. Imagine you’re on your deathbed and you look back to this exact phase, this exact moment in your life, what are you gonna want to proudly be able to say, you know in 2018, “Man I gotta tell you, I’m so psyched, that I… what?”
When I look back to 1991 or 1992 I say I’m so proud! Like if I was on my deathbed right now, I’d say I couldn’t possibly be more proud about the fact that I didn’t just take a job out of college that I trusted there was some greatness that would unfold, even if it was eventual, by following my passion, by trusting, that I could really make not just a living, but a damn good one following what I love, following my bliss.
So practically speaking, you gotta answer the damn question first, you gotta answer the question, what would be amazing. If I could make a great living, if I could really make really good money, more than I would ever need, doing whatever the hell I wanted, what would that be? Now that sounds like an impractical question, but I gotta tell ya, there are no more practical questions.
If you’re interested in living your life powerfully, and happily, then this is the most practical question. It doesn’t mean your gonna go quit your job now, and again that’s an assumptions so many people make when I even raise the question. Like what, am I supposed to just quit? No, no, but for god’s sake just start considering, open up to the possibility that you can have it the way you want it, that your job can become a vocation, and you can make as much money as you ever want doing it. But you’re not going to unless first you have an answer to the question, well what would perfect look like, then second is start moving towards, it’s one of my favorite mantras Nick, is move towards. Right, just do anything, like do anything, anything towards having it be real.
So there’s a client of mine who wants to own a retreat center. And he’s wanted it for years right, a retreat center where he does all this holistic healing stuff and coaching and yoga and all this stuff. And years ago he picked out a space in Hawaii, and he’s getting really really, he picked out an actual location, and he went there recently and he took pictures of it. And he committed to it, he got all in, you mentioned all in, he got all in, all in. Like meaning, he isn’t hoping for it, he decided this is going to be real. So he actually went to Hawaii, with the intent of, you know, finding the location. And he found a spot and he took a picture, and he’s starting to crush it as a coach and right now he’s like making bank. He hasn’t bought the property yet, but guess what? He will, there’s no question that he will.
I have another client who was a bankruptcy lawyer for 33 years, and made a good living, a very good living, but hated it. For the last two years I’ve been coaching him and I asked him when we started, what is it, what’s the thing, what do you want? He said I want to be an inventor, but I don’t know how I could make the same living. So over the course of two years, we’ve had him take steps, take steps, he started homework on his inventions, and, and, this is the interesting point of this story. When he opened up to the possibility that he could leave his practice which he’d done for 33 years, when he opened up to the possibility that he might just might be able to have his life on his terms and maybe make a living inventing stuff, ’cause he’s got great ideas on things, like really amazing things too, like stuff that would stop boats from sinking and medical technology and all this stuff.
What happened was something he didn’t think of, something he hadn’t predicted. Which is an alternative way to make money, through his experience in bankruptcy law, which he would have never considered [was a path towards his dream], and it involves like some complicated stuff like buying other people’s debt and just a really easy way of making money that he wouldn’t have ever thought of, if he’d just stayed in survival mode. So he’s closed his business, his business is closed, he’s shut the doors. And he’s making really good money, doing this simple thing, that he wouldn’t have thought of if had he not opened up to the possibility, and that is funding his work on his inventions, which he’s getting really close to bringing his first invention to market. So bottom line, trust the organizing intelligence inherent within your passion. Answer what is your passion. Next step just start making some moves towards it, and just watch what happens.
Nick: For me it’s always been just this simple equation. I have a much, maybe not much, I have at least a slightly bigger fear of regret than I do of failure. I got my MBA, because I thought to myself, 30 years from now am I going to regret having a master’s degree? Probably not, 30 years from now if I don’t get it will I wonder what I could’ve done, how the path might have changed if I got it? Yeah and that terrified me so guess what I did? I jumped online at two in the morning, and took the GMAT the next week and went to grad school. I’m not patient, like I told everybody in episode zero, but that’s just always been my thing, I’d much rather fail, learn, figure it out, and go again, than I would regret and sit and stagnate and just what is, I don’t believe in that and I think a lot of that comes from being an athlete and that mentality, a lot of it comes from working with you.
You work with a ton of really, really successful people Chris, like when you go to keynote it at Salesforce and you’re working with high level enterprise sales teams and sales executives, what is it that they have between the ears that makes them so successful that we can learn from?
Chris: Well, I’m gonna answer that and you might not be expecting this answer. But it’s like, it’s what you got Nick. So we gotta define success, so I define success as having your life on your terms and not regretting and going for things even if you fail. Like swinging and missing and being psyched that you swung as opposed to, dang, god why didn’t I swing at that? And that’s one of the things I love about you, and it’s how you were long before I ever met you, okay, you don’t play D1 football unless you got that attitude, which is I’m gonna go for it. You had that attitude long before you met me, and one of the things I adore about you, is that, you know you go like, this would be great let’s go for it, this would be great let’s go for it, this might be really amazing, I don’t know what the likelihood is, let’s go for it.
Nick: To be honest, it’s the reason that I have this podcast, it’s that, you know. I want to serve more, I want to help people, I want to share what I know with as many people as possible. I really don’t know what’s gonna come from it, and I frankly don’t care because I’m enjoying the hell out of doing this. I’m enjoying these types of conversations, more than I could even, it wouldn’t matter, I could have a sponsor for a million dollars a year and it wouldn’t make this anymore fun than I have doing this just right now.
Chris: There you go, so that is a huge part of what has people be successful. And you know you frame the question as like these big executives, who cares about the big executives, I mean, the big executive status. I care about the people who might have that status and I coach a lot of people that are very rich and they are not happy. They can’t say what you just said, you just gave me goosebumps dude, because what you just said, you literally just gave me goosebumps because and it just warms my heart to hear stuff like that dude. Because that is success, that is success, you are doing, you’re letting things like money happen spontaneously as a consequence of being of service and having fun. Ding, ding, dude.
There’s a book written by Leo Tolstoy, who is one of Russia’s greatest writer’s in history, and the book is entitled, “The Death of Ivan Ilyich“. It’s a story about a dude who commits himself to achieving success as defined conventionally which is money and power. So he does, then he gets sick, terminally ill, now he’s on his deathbed and he’s confronted with the question, was my whole life wrong? I’ll tell ya what, we’re not gonna be confronted with that question man. And nobody wants to be confronted with that question.
So what it is that people, I’m gonna repose the question, which is what do really successful people have that the people who are struggling don’t have? And again success is defined by having your life on your terms, right, and one of the things is an answer to the damn question, what are your terms? What does your life look like when it’s on your terms? And people don’t sit down and answer that question, they’re too busy surviving. And again, this wasn’t a question that was asked to them when they were in their teens by the guidance counselors. When does that question get posed, what would be amazing, how would you love to use your life in the most profound ways? Don’t worry about money for now, kiddo, just talk to me about what would be killer, what would be amazing, what would warm you heart, what would be fun, what would be cool? So first is the answer to the question.
Another thing though, is and this is interesting is, is it’s expectation. One of the things that I’ve observed about really, really successful, again defined as having your life on your terms, people is that they expect it to happen. They don’t give in to the conditions, they transcend the conditioning doubt, the conditioned doubt, and they have a refusal to settle, they just truly expect to have the things that they want to have happen occur for them. And they don’t look at things, they don’t look at struggle as hard work, they just look at it as this is just what it takes, this is what it takes. And like you mentioned in the All In program, it’s all forward progress. What other people would consider as adversity, is simply just more movement towards, like so when somebody hears the story about Thomas Edison, who was getting interviewed after the light bulb came out and the interviewer said, so gosh you failed 1000 times, man, how did you feel about that? And Edison said, what are you talking about? “I didn’t fail 1000 times. I just learned 1000 ways not to make a light bulb.” It’s that kind of mentality. That’s just the way it needed to be, every single one that didn’t work, was information for him that was useful for him to get better to learn to discover what would work. So it’s all forward progress.
When I’m moving towards my passion it’s all forward progress, so successful people don’t interpret things as failure, there’s no such thing as failure. So here’s a great take away for the people that are successful, they have the attitude, there’s no such thing as failure, there are only results and I love all results. There’s two categories of results, I get what I want or I didn’t. The first category, when I get what I want, it’s valuable for obvious reasons, I get to celebrate that. When I don’t get what I want, it’s equally valuable in a very distinct way, which is this is where I get to learn, this is where I get to grow, I get to create something out of this.
Nick: Yeah, no absolutely, you keep talking about things that are in the All In program, and I’m going to put it in the show notes– I encourage you if you’re listening and you’re picking up what Chris is putting down here, that is a program you have to listen to. It’s available in an audio file and Chris you actually have some exciting news about that program if you want to share that.
Chris: I appreciate that, yes, just yesterday I completed the recording for the course. I’ve coursified, if that’s a verb, the All In audio course. The audio program, like the CD the MP3, is about an hour long. I’ve just taken it and opened it up, I’ve converted it into an online digital course that’s gonna be available any minute now. I’m pretty pumped about that.
Nick: That’s amazing, I’m gonna put that in the show notes, encourage you guys to check it out along with Chris’s information.
So, Chris I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all your stories. We’re gonna link to the All In program, we’re gonna link to the course if it’s available by the time this launches. But for our audience, what’s your one, number one parting piece of advice, how can we follow you for the listeners who have really dug what you’re doing?
Chris: Okay so, my parting piece of advice would be to schedule, like right now, unless you’re driving, as soon as you can, literally schedule an hour of sacred time, right where you’re unplugged, with a pad of paper and a pen. Don’t do it on a computer, go somewhere cool, be totally, infinitely unplugged and undistracted and answer the question, how do I most profoundly want to use the rest of my life? And after you’ve completed that then just do anything, no matter how small, just any step, take any step towards that whatsoever. And then anybody that wants to look into more of my work, or get on my email list or follow my blog, or get the Daily Dose, that’s easy just go to my homepage, my website, which is christopherdorris.com and it’s all right there.
Nick: We’ll throw that information in the show notes as well. Chris it’s always a pleasure my friend, I learn something every time I talk to you, the things that you inspire me to think about and challenge in our conditioning and just in the way that we look at the world is really impactful and really powerful. It’s why I wanted you to be guest number one on The Job Lab. And on behalf of all of our listeners, thanks for spending so much time with us today.
Chris: Thank you brother, I totally appreciate the invite man.